Thomas Jefferson's Grand Day Out in London

 

David Thorson: He would have maxed out his American Express card on that one day in, in London.

Jacqueline Langholtz: I love that David Thorson tells the story. It's something that you would never hear on a regular house tour. And it helps to create a picture of Jefferson that is, uh, so much more nuanced and interesting, I think, than you get from the history books. It's

Tom Van der Voort: great to think about Jefferson as a regular guy, because so often we think about him as a man on a pedestal that we can't access.

And this story that David Thorson is going to tell us will get to Jefferson's quirkiness a little bit. I'm Tom Vandervoort. And I'm Jacqueline Langholtz. And you're listening to a podcast that we, what are we calling it? What did we decide to call it? Well, we've

Jacqueline Langholtz: gone through so many options. There are so many good ideas.

We have inalienable, we've thought about self evident, and then ultimately we realize a lot of these stories are about People and the interesting daily lives that they lead so actually where we landed was in the course of human event

Tom Van der Voort: So welcome to in the course of human events and we'll let David get started on the story about one day out in London that Thomas Jefferson had and of course David's attempt to figure out what was really going on here.

David Thorson: This is the story of of Jefferson's travels in London, and I'm going to tell you the story of one particular day.

Jefferson himself said, travel is good for your health and necessary for your amusement. And March 21st, 1786, is truly a day of amusement. Jefferson is minister to France, ambassador to France. John Adams is minister to Britain. Adams has an idea that Jefferson can come over to Britain and they'll be able to negotiate a set of treaties because the young United States is trying to establish its credibility as a new nation.

Jefferson said, I rise with the sun. And in the course of this single day, He's literally, even today you can walk around the city of London, you can see thousands of things in half a day. And imagine Jefferson strolling the streets of London. First he visits Piccadilly, and he goes to the shop of Jesse Ramsden, who is a very well known maker of scientific instruments.

And there he buys a thermometer, a protractor, and a globe.

Jacqueline Langholtz: Jefferson must have been so excited about those objects, thermometer, protractor, and globe. Well,

Tom Van der Voort: tell me why you are thinking that he would have been really excited about those in particular.

Jacqueline Langholtz: Oh, well, Jefferson is a man who does math for fun to the sixth decimal point.

He is all about exactitudes and, um, details. You know, he takes the weather recordings twice a day, every 40 years. And to have scientific instruments that would allow him to record details about the natural environment around him, I mean, I think he just would have been really geeked out to go home and use them.

Geeked out. I love that. Yeah.

David Thorson: He wanders over to Haymarket to visit Dahland and Sons. Dahland is a, is a maker of optical instruments. He buys a telescope. That is still part of our collections at Monticello, and a microscope that is in his office today. Then, he takes a break, he goes to Charing Cross Road, where he sees the learned pig.

That's not a restaurant. No, it is not. This is a trained pig that had become a celebrity in London. And the pig would go fetch cards from the audience, and would tell their age, would spell words in Latin and Greek. And it's all a trick.

Tom Van der Voort: The man has just trained the pig to respond to this. He's

David Thorson: simply trained the pig to, at a command, to go fetch cards from the audience.

So, Jefferson sees this phenomenon. And he crosses over to Corn Hill, and he visits Dealtree and Company. And Jefferson buys two pair of small pocket pistols. So wait,

Tom Van der Voort: those pistols, those are still at Monticello. That's right.

Jacqueline Langholtz: They're in the bedchamber and you can see them in the alcove bed. They are at the foot of his bed.

Tom Van der Voort: And do we know that he was he into shooting or hunting or I've never heard any stories about Jefferson right into firearms.

Jacqueline Langholtz: Right, exactly. Uh, you know, where this question usually comes up is in the entrance hall when people see all of those animal horns and the moose antlers and, and. But he really is not much of a hunter.

Uh, so in the entrance hall, that's about learning about the world around you. And seeing examples of animals that aren't in Virginia. And for the pistols in the bedchamber, I don't know. I think that's just probably good

Tom Van der Voort: style. Is he like, like mechanical things? Sure. mechanical aspect to how these things work?

Yes.

Jacqueline Langholtz: Absolutely. Taking things apart, putting them back together. Um, you know, Jefferson even does this with his eyeglasses, uh, where he's writing back and forth with the man who, uh, makes his eyeglasses, taking it apart, putting it back together. Same with the polygraph machine. I'm sure he would have been interested in the mechanics of the gun, possibly even more so than in firing it, sure.

David Thorson: John Adams and Abigail Adams are there at Rosminer Square. And Jefferson essentially had an open invitation for dinner. at the Addams House during his stay in London. Dinner in London at that time would be, let's say around three, between three and five. Between doing all this shopping, Jefferson encounters Judge Richard Peters.

Jacqueline Langholtz: Wait, what is Richard Peters in England to do?

Tom Van der Voort: He's in England to negotiate. and what becomes the Episcopal Church of the United States.

David Thorson: He was part of what today would be the Department of Defense in the Continental Army, and that was his mission, was to try to negotiate, hopefully an amicable separation of the churches.

And he actually does succeed in that effort.

Jacqueline Langholtz: Wow, I'm sure, wow, I bet Jefferson would have been really interested in talking with him about that. Well, what

Tom Van der Voort: occurred to me when David brought this up was, I never thought about why these two churches are separate. But then, of course, if you merely think about the name Anglican, that is the Church of England, of which the king or queen of England is the head.

When the United States separates from England, they can't very well keep the King of England as the head of their church, right? So they need a new church and I'm like, there's all this going on that also intersects this one day in London. But you're saying Jefferson is really interested in religion

Jacqueline Langholtz: itself.

Sure. I mean, Jefferson's always interested in talking about religion. You see religious art all over the house. Uh, and he is always interested in this separation, this wall, uh, between church and state. Um, but very interested in, I think, how, how religion affects society and, and cultures and identity. Um, really cool.

I would love to hear more about what Richard Peters and Jefferson talked about. Imagine being a fly on the wall for that one.

David Thorson: Richard Peters was known. Above all for his remarkable and very quick wit. So he and Jefferson are going to hit it off. They're also joined by William Stephen Smith. He's actually a veteran of the American Revolution.

And he was the secretary to John Adams. So you can imagine these three. Expected for dinner at the Addams house

somewhere along the line. They stop off at one of the most famous restaurants in all the city of London. It's called Dolly's Chop House. Very swanky, very nice. I have no idea if their idea was simply to get together, you know, have a, have a beverage before heading off to the Addamses. Well, at some point in time they realize.

They're not going to make dinner and what are we going to do? How do we how do we make our amends in between the three of them Richard Peters? William Stephen Smith and Jefferson concoct poem of apology This is the very day as well that Abigail Adams is at her desk writing a letter to her sister Mary Cranch and she actually breaks off the letter and says, Oh my God, I'm late.

I have to dress for dinner, by

Jacqueline Langholtz: the way I totally identify with Abigail in this story, even though we don't hear from her perspective But I am very much the Abigail Adams who would be like, where are they? Why are they late for Abigail for

David Thorson: Abigail? Now the title of the poem is an interlude at Dolly's Chophouse and the time says one half past two Dolly's And so the three of them concoct this poem together, and William Stephen Smith is dutifully recording.

One among our many follies was calling in for steaks at Dolly's, whereby we've lost and feel like sinners that we have missed much better dinners, nor do we think that us tis hard on, most humbly thus to beg your pardon. And promise that another time we'll give our reason, not our rhyme. So we've agreed without objection.

The vote is that we thus jointly give you notice. For as our rule is to be clever, we hold it better late than never. And all three men sign it. If you're familiar with Jefferson's signature, this is not the typical signature of Thomas Jefferson. No. It's become very much a scrawl.

Tom Van der Voort: Makes you wonder what they were consuming at Dolly's.

It

David Thorson: does indeed.

Jacqueline Langholtz: I really love the detail that they say, uh, that David Thorson says that Thomas Jefferson's signature even looks bizarre. Right. I love that.

Tom Van der Voort: Well, that's interesting too, because what do you know about his drinking habits? Oh,

Jacqueline Langholtz: in moderation.

Tom Van der Voort: Except maybe this one time. Except

Jacqueline Langholtz: maybe this one time, cuts loose a little bit.

I mean, Jefferson drinks, uh, with dinner. We know that he likes Madeira wine. Of course, he keeps a wine in a beer cellar at Monticello, but this was the first. I've heard of Jefferson going

Tom Van der Voort: over the edge. Because look, you could be a drinker in moderation. But are you telling me that your entire life you've never had a little too much to drink?

I think that there has to be at least one time. There has to be a time. Right. And this could be at least that one time. Not that there aren't others. I

Jacqueline Langholtz: like picturing him, uh, maybe a little bit excessively happy. Uh, a little stumbly, perhaps. Uh, writing his signature a little bit too big and squirrely, perhaps.

I mean, because he's someone who's so often so straight laced in his, in his letters and his

Tom Van der Voort: writings. And so being in control, he drops his guard a little, right? So in this instance, he drops his guard a little,

David Thorson: yeah. Throughout the entire visit, he's going everywhere he possibly can. He's seeing everything he possibly can see is people today.

Sometimes you try to jam as much as you can into that short period of time. As guides at Monticello, oftentimes we find ourselves imagining, and certainly many of the visitors imagine, Jefferson is this very serious, he's always thinking big thoughts. This day presents Jefferson as just a human being out enjoying himself on vacation in London.

At some

Tom Van der Voort: point you start to get a picture of Jefferson as like, uh, This guy's kind of wacky, right? He's kind of a wacky guy. Okay,

Jacqueline Langholtz: yes, but what makes you say that?

Tom Van der Voort: Well, it's just the idea that I'm buying this thing over here, and then I go to the learned pig, and I start thinking about all these stories about him like humming, and coming out in his slippers, and it's kind of nice.

Jacqueline Langholtz: It is kind of nice. You think, um, he's got some more dynamism to

Tom Van der Voort: him. Right. And he's got some human qualities that are just like the kind of quirky things that everybody has.

David Thorson: The very idea that, that he's going to take the time to go see the learned pig, you know, Hey, let's go check this out. He's probably trying to figure out the trick.

The epilogue to the story is, the purpose of Jefferson's visit to negotiate these treaties is a complete failure. None of the treaties that he and Adams had worked so hard on during their time in London ever come to fruition. So as a diplomatic mission, it's a complete failure. But as a personal mission, I would say it's a rousing success.

Tom Van der Voort: So what do you think about that, Jacqueline? Did I get the story out of him there? I think you

Jacqueline Langholtz: got the story out of him in the course of human events. That was a fun one.

Tom Van der Voort: That was a pretty good day. Pretty good day in London. And thank you, everyone, for joining us here on the first, the very first episode of In the Course of Human Events.

Again, I'm Tom Vandervoort.

Jacqueline Langholtz: And I'm Jacqueline L'Engle. And thanks for listening.

Tom Van der Voort: All right. We'll see you next time.